The fact is that this movie targets children, not adults. All of the rhetroic in the article deals with adult abilities and opportunities for sharing our faith. Children do not have the ability to watch and analyze with spiritual maturity what they see. Allowing a child to see movie is an endoresement that it is okay.

We can take a stand and not be militant or judgemental. NOT to take a stand is ignoring an assault against Christianity.

You say, "This plot line offends and hurts me, yet I still believe the movie provides incredible opportunities for Christians. Opportunity to do what? The only opportunity I could think that it could provide is the opportunity to defend Christianity against the works of the devil who only comes but to kill, steal and destroy.

Pullman has the wronful impression of the church in the first place because the enemy has done exactly what God's Word said he would do. He tells you in His Word to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing, false prophets, and the antichrist in the last days. We have to be rooted and grounded in His Word so that we won't be deceived by the tricks of the enemy. If we don't stay fasted and prayed up, we will be deceived. We have to be mindful of what we see and listen to that will reside in our spirits.

I have encountered arrogant, judgemental, self righteous, prideful and even holier than thou (as some would say) and I don't have a wrongful impression of the church. People need to stop passing judgement about God because of the person sitting in the pew next to them. You have to know God for yourself. You have to have a personal relationship with God for yourself to know that He is real. I don't care how many hypocrits I see or hear about...I know my God is real. This is just another tool of the devil to use against the body of Christ.

An honest critique of the church? This in no way gives an opportunity to assess areas needing improvement. This is just another opportunity to speak against God and His people. One thing you can do to help change negative perceptions of the church is to not support negativity that is spoken, portrayed, etc. against God and His people.

Strong-arm tactics by Christian groups? This movie is a strong-arm tactic to underhandly go against God. Had we as Christians been so strong-armed, prayer would still be in our schools. There wouldn't be a fight to keep In God We Trust on our money. We wouldn't have to see the Ten Commmandments being removed.

Would you want your child going to see a movie with rapists, murders, drug dealers, gangs, etc. just to have the opportunity to spark conversation about what areas in this world needs improvement?

This is not a Golden Opportunity as you titled your article. But, wait...maybe it is and to God be the glory. Like He said in His Word...What the enemy meant for bad, He has turned it around for good. He also said...No weapons formed shall prosper. This movie will not accomplish what it was set out to do. In your article you stated what Pullman told The Washington Post in 2001, "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief." NO! It will never happen...Him and whoever else believes this mess can hang that up.

You're right, many people who aren't following Christ don't listen to Christian music, read Christian books or watch Christian movies. That's where we as believers and faithful followers of Christ come in. We are the only bible that some people are ever going to read so we have to make every day of our lives count and represent Christ. NOT BY PROMOTING SUCH MADNESS AS THIS MOVIE!!!!!

This movie doesn't challenge my faith. It only makes it stronger and challenges me to make sure I'm presenting my body as a living sacrifice to God so that my prayers against the enemy will prevail!!!!!!! Only God can challenge my faith through test and trials.

God has His reasons for allowing this movie to hit the screens. Never think that the devil can do anything without Gods permission. I know God has a plan in all of this....so I'm not mad or afraid. This is a time to rejoice because God is up to something!!!!!

I would not go to see this movie simply because I don't want to give any of my hard earned money to this guy. As I do with any movie that I think isn't worth seeing.

I actually discussed this last night over coffee with a good friend who is claiming to be an atheist. Deep down, I don't think she believes that, but that's another discussion. :-)

I haven't read the books, and thanks to the hype, I didn't see the movie. But she, being the literary guru that she is, did read the first book after she saw the movie.

So actually, she did most of the talking. She said that the book leaves no doubt about the "killing God" theme. But the movie? Well, if you read the book you might be able to loosely make the connection. But without having read the book first, she thinks most would have a hard time thinking of God in the movie at all. That thought just wouldn't cross the normal movie-goer's mind.

I just have to think, perhaps mistakenly, that this is one of those cases that the "over-the-top" reaction of some Christians has painted another rotten picture of Christians that unfortunately, nonbelievers accept as truth.

We need to pick our battles, to know the real important places to stand our ground and share the Truth. I just don't think the furor over this movie is warranted, and this whole issue got way bigger than it should have...

That's just my opinion...

I can only imagine how many sacred cows were tipped with your blog. I appreciate your viewpoint! The Golden Compass movie is a great catalyst to beginning a deep discussion. And why not look at why Mr. Pullman wrote it in the first place? If we as the Church would look honestly at ourselves, we would see so many times where we have missed the mark. If we were honest with ourselves and others, we'd admit it. If we were honest with God, we'd ask for His help in being real. Our calling is to LOVE OTHERS, not to silence opposition. God gives us the free will choice to choose Him or not. We have to allow others that same choice.
I am learning to love as He does. I don't do it well yet, but I'm not giving up, either. We have to love others as Jesus did. That includes being knowledgeable in what we believe (and why), as well as the willingness to be real as we share His love with others. Being real is living without pretense. If the Church loved as Jesus loves, we would attract more people to God. That, I think, is our greatest mission. I wasn't attracted to christianity because of rules and regulations. Love drew me.

I have to disagree with Holly on this one - while engaged, healthy discussion of those things that appear to oppose our faith can be a good idea, a movie that targets children with what amounts to bigoted rhetoric is at best a waste of time. At worst, it's our enemy trading on insider information - why give him the opportunity? It is a direct slam against Christianity (and God, fortunately He can take it) - would our argument be the same for a movie that used racial epithets toward _____(you pick the ethnic group)? What we put in front of our eyes, and our children's eyes, IS IMPORTANT....there is not one thing wrong with instructing children to avoid temptation or turn away from impurity, and to avoid being desensitized by the barage of negative images that they are faced with everyday, just at school! We should shelter ourselves as adults more, for that matter (have you seen an episode of Law and Order lately? - horrifying!). The media are relentless, but the reality is the real world is where we're needed as Christians, not the movies. When was the last time any of us invited a co-worker to Church, or even dinner - or a neighbor and her children to Sunday School? I love what Phyllis George uses as her filter when deciding what to view, read, listen to, etc, in leisure...is this material pure enough for the eyes of Christ? I would have to give a big thumbs down to Golden Compass - I don't think Jesus would blame me for not wasting my time with it.

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All people at some point must go through a thought process like Holly's to accept the truth for themselves. We must allow our children to be challenged in appropriate degrees and be available to discuss their questions. If people do not choose, they choose not.

The best possible way to teach our children (and ourselves) to seek the truth and be discerning is to teach them to read the Bible and ask God for understanding. As John 8:31-32 says, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Back to the movie. The big problem with seeing this movie is paying to do so. As consumers, we speak with our cash. Approval is not what I want to say with mine.

It will be a great opportunity to discuss a socially unacceptable subject. We can use some of the God given discernment we have received to discuss the subject matter whether we've seen the movie or not.

About movies and books:

I’m so surprised that many Christian parents believe Satan’s lie ‘did God really say ‘do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’, that is: family discussion will protect children from the knowledge of evil portrayed in any film or book, rather than believe the message in Ephesians: ‘Whatsoever things are good, whatsoever things are lovely, dwell on these things’. The ‘millstone’ is a scary prospect. So many modern parents fall for the lie, that intellectual political correctness, is superior to God’s protective guidelines for us in Scripture.

After gleaning info, from a couple of reviews of the film, ‘The Golden Compass’ and on reading an interview with the author, Pullman, I believe it is important for Christians to know that the books seem to be a revival of the old ‘Fertility Cult’ religions, in a new form, to appeal to Western children/teens particularly. Pullman, an atheist, committed to converting Christians to Atheism, or stamping out Christianity, is hoping that the watered down atheism aspects of the movie, conceals his real agenda, and will lull Christians into believing that his books will be exciting, but ‘safe’ reading, for their children.

The following was ‘gleaned’ from the reviews and the interview and should be noted:

God is evil, ageing, a Hitler, or Stalin type and should be assassinated.

The young teenage heroine and her boyfriend do this in a later book.

All children have a demon ‘daemon’ companion in the form of an animal.

The Magisterium, [his word for the church] is evil, does not act in children’s or humankind’s best interests.

Pullman, ignorantly or deliberately, assumes the church regards sex as evil, that it was the original sin of Adam and Eve; and that it actually ‘opened their eyes to ‘good knowledge’. Sin [called dust], is not a problem, but to be controlled.

[However the Judeo/Christian Scriptures indicate that the original sin was human kinds’ pride, Adam and Eve believed Satan’s lie that they were deceived by God, that he was holding back something ‘good’ from them, and that if they disobeyed him, that is, ate of the ‘Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil’; they could become equals to God. Before their disobedience God had lovingly protected them, but after their disobedience, sin or evil came into their world, with hate, sickness, war, death, dying, selfishness, cheating, deception, etc; culminating in one of their sons murdering another son. ]

[Also the Judeo/Christian Scriptures clearly teaches that sex is part of God’s good creation, is meant for pleasure and procreation, but within a loving committed monogamous marriage. Any other use of sex destroys us, is subject to exploitative selfishness and deception, leads to heartbreak: being ‘used abused and abandoned’, sexually transmitted disease, possible AIDS or Cervical cancer, depression and mental illness, [and possible suicide], from the empty promises of ‘love’. How many women face a future alone with no husband or family because they believed, the recent lie: that promiscuous sex, outside of marriage, was the cultural norm, only to find themselves ‘on the shelf’ while their former boyfriends are pursuing much younger women for wives or for continued ‘playboy’ abuse. Thus a loving Yahweh lay down strict religious laws to protect people from the harm of sexual misuse].

Pullman makes the young teenage heroine the ‘saviour of the world’, when she has teenage sex. This sexual act is implied from the passage, but not said directly, as the Newspaper reviews indicate that the USA has laws against under age sex, [under 18?]. This is similar belief to the old fertility cults, although mostly it was believed that temple prostitution, in the old agrarian cultures, increased their crops, animal fertility. Increasing food production, prolongs ‘life’. etc.

[The Judeo/Christian Scriptures indicate that a ‘Messiah’ would come to save the world. Isaiah 53. Christians believe that the Jesus of Nazareth, born in Bethlehm, a descendant of King David, is the Messiah. He said such mind blowing things as ‘Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you’. Can you imagine how different the world would be if we all put this into practice. He also said he had come to die for us to ‘save us’ from sin and redeem us from Satan’s hold, reunite us with our loving, merciful Father God.]

I write this because not only have our children been subject to the ‘attractive packaging’ of the Harry Potter books and films, causing easy and attractive accessing of the knowledge of witchcraft, which so many have been deceived into thinking is harmless; but these Pullman books and film seem to go a step further, attacking Christianity itself, enticing children into believing that indulging in sex will ‘fix the world’ and that the act is good for them no matter how young. Could this be ‘the increase in the knowledge of evil in the last days’? God’s loving, merciful will is that: ‘no one should perish’. He desires that humankind live the ‘abundant life’ following Yahweh’s guidelines.

The thought keeps coming back to me that the end result, worst case scenario of that atheistic religion would be that any child, who believed its heresy, could be easily exploited by any sexual predator/pedophile, that they could be convinced that submitting to anyone that ‘appears’ to be in authority, would be in the best interests of the world, even if the, the child ‘suffers’.

For children, how about, "Whatever things are true... pure... of good report... think on these things" (Phil.4:8)?

** 'daemon' and 'demon'

Before expostulating on how awful Pullman is to employ the word 'daemon', you should learn what it means.

Got a good dictionary -- like Merriam-Webster? Then you'll see that 'demon' refers to "evil" spirits.

But, a 'daemon' is a helpful, positive sort of spirit. This why you'll see 'MAILER DAEMON' on email returned by the mail system. It's your friendly daemon updating you on undeliverable mail.

If you're "outraged" by the use of 'daemon', then it's your problem, not Pullman's. He's just cleverer and more honest than you are.

bipolar2
© 2007

O Ye of little faith. Don’t have the courage to post a comment from an honest-to-God atheist? Then don’t ask for them in your post.

bipolar2

** Pullman rids us of "God" to have us ask is there a God beyond "God"? **

‘The Golden Compass’ carries a PG-13. No children under 13 admitted without parents. Pullman’s main audience is adolescents -- who are asking all sorts of questions about their parents' assumptions, profound and facile alike.

To those of you who think the movie should be censored or ruled out of bounds by someone’s preemptive strike on your own judgment -- let me say that I find Narnia to be heavy-handed 3rd-rate xian propaganda. (By way of comparison I find J.S. Bach’s St. Matthew Passion to be 1st rate xian propaganda.)

Having just read His Dark Materials trilogy -- given all the stupid hisses from you real followers of the Magisteria of Catholicism and Tax-Dodging-Fundies -- I must laugh at all howling disapproval.

After all, you and all who think like you are acting exactly the way Pullman satirizes and finds morally repugnant.

>> The core idea of His Dark Materials is at least as old as Plato

Pullman takes a fairly well-known theo-philosophical viewpoint and reworks it at eye-glazing length, 900+ pages for the entire trilogy. One might start with Plato’s Demiurge in Timaeus, the master artificer of this world, but a second tier god, and change his attributes from positive to negative. Thus ending up with the foul creature famously damned by Houseman in Last Poems (1922) No. 9, st. 3:

We for a certainty are not the first
Have sat in taverns while the tempest hurled
Their hopeful plans to emptiness, and cursed
Whatever brute and blackguard made the world.

E. R. Dodds a preeminent Oxford classicist maintained (1965):

“The theory of an ignorant or malevolent creator -- ‘whatever brute and blackguard made the world’ -- is certainly neither Greek nor Jewish, and in fact no one, I think, has suggested a plausible pre-Christian ‘source’ for it. . . . [I]t would seem to have been first proposed in the second century after Christ.” Pagan and Christian in an Age of Anxiety. p. 16. note 3.

>> Is there a God beyond “God”?

I think that it was in this context that Meister Eckhart, medieval German mystic, pleaded “I ask that God rid me of God.” Pullman accomplishes part of this task. He pulls “God” the blackguard down, destroys him and all his anti-heaven, redeeming a myriad of worlds. But, does Pullman still leave open to apprehension a ‘true’ God (beyond "God") to whom our mystical German appeals?

I think not. The old “God” and all his angels were “of this world” -- the only world there is or ever was -- mystical apprehension is and always has been nonsense. “God” by the way is not killed. He dissolves happily into thin air when released from his protective crystal pod by Lyra and Will.

There was and is nothing beyond or behind the world to know. Mysticism was ‘misty-cism’ all along. Pullman, of course, offers no critique of mysticism. He merely presupposes a single physical universe of multiple possible worlds. He employs one hypothesized interpretation of what seem to be "anomalous" results in quantum mechanics.

>> Dust is matter striving to “know” itself

Finally, there seems to me to be nothing mystical about Dust. It is real matter “striving” to become “mindful.” Or, perhaps all matter is somehow mindful. Is Pullman a panpsychist? I’m inclined to say no.

While I can’t make sense of matter striving to be anything, mind (that suspect entity) is supposedly matter of a new sort. Just as living matter is dead matter of a new sort not striven for. (Nor does living matter strive for consciousness; nor does evolution aim at "man" or beyond man to Chardin's "omega point." Speaking of physicalist mysticism.)

The totality of beings, things, and their relationships belongs in one physical universe of many possible worlds. The doctrine of a superordinate, moralized "spiritual realm" -- which xianity shares with judaism, islam, and zoroastrianism -- is quite simply bogus.

bipolar2
© 2007

I don't believe that any movie should be censored. That's what the first amendment protects. While that means there will be lots of movies and other messages that I don't agree with, the risk that my own views being censored is more frightening to me.

The fact is, Pullman isn't the first guy to try to "kill" God nor shall he be the last. God isn't afraid of Philip Pullman and neither should we.

Holly, I agree that we should use these movies as opportunities to discuss our faith and maybe reach out to someone who desperately needs the truth.

WOW, that Bipolar said a mouthfull!!!
I pray that you will learn to trust the ONLY REAL SAVIOR, before it is too late. The WORD of God says that when look upon His face every knee will bow, and EVERY tounge will confess HIS majesty.
This movie is dangerous to this world, and to all those who may fall into the trap that this movie lays out.
As far as what you where saying Holly, I can appreciate you're point. At the same time, I don't think that we should support this film financially. Also, someone has to speak out against it. The Lord says to come out from among them and be sepperate. We have to be in this world, but not of it. If we don't take a stand somewhere, then all our rights will be taken eventually. The world, more importantly, the God of this world, Satan, hates us. He would love nothing more than to see us distroyed. We have to remember that there is more going on that what we can see with these physical eyes. There really is a war for our souls that we can't see, but it is more dangerious than any war on this earth. Just be careful what you allow yourself to veiw. Love in Christ!

Holly says: Regarding Bipolar2's comment on "daemon":

Actually, "daemon" can be an alternative spelling for either "demon" or "daimon."

For the sake of argument, I went straight to the king of dictionaries. Oxford's first definition is "a divinity or supernatural being of a nature between gods and humans." This from Greek mythology, though the common spelling in this case is "daimon," not "daemon."

Oxford's second definition of "daemon" is: "archaic spelling of demon."

American Heritage's first definition of "daemon" is "chiefly British: Variant of demon." (American Heritage is the standard for much of print media, including my publisher.)

So let's momentarily assume Pullman meant "daimon." In Greek mythology, daimons could either be good or evil. (Some dictionaries define "daimon" as specifically evil, while others have a somewhat positive secondary definition of "attendant spirit" or "genius." Or, as Webster's puts it, a daemon was "a supernatural being or force not specifically evil."

All to say, "daemon" can either be "demon" or "daimon." But it's a huge--and inaccurate--leap to state this is a purely positive concept. Even within the literary context Pullman's creates, there are evil daemons.

Anyway, this is semantics. Only Pullman himself knows for certain whether he meant "demon" or "daimon." The real issue here is his overall intention. Pullman has made it clear in interviews he's taking issue with the church, and yes, he's very honest and straightforward on this point. If he's trying to be so deliberate in using words like "Magisterium," "church," and "God" (using Judeo-Christian terms to describe God), it's logical to consider he might be trying to vex Christians with "daemon" because the word carries many strong associations.

Bipolar2, I assume your comment was directed to my post, so I will reiterate (as I wrote), "I find this word usage off-putting." Didn't say I was "outraged."

Still, I think both emotions--uneasiness and anger--stem from hurt. It hurts to feel your core values are being mocked. Regardless of Pullman's intent, there has been widespread hurt. It's like if someone insulted your beloved; their intentions are irrelevant, and your emotional reaction is understandable. I hope that, in the midst of the protests and angry comments from Christians, this hurt will be seen and recognized for what it is.

In my opinion, this movie has been blown up way out of proportion. I agree with Holly. ANY opportunity to discuss God and His word should be welcomed. Good or bad. Like one other poster said, who are we not to trust a God that ALLOWS all of this? God has a purpose and it's not our own. In this day and age, it is so "taboo" to discuss God and Christianity, so I say, take every chance to do this.

I would allow my kids to see this, because that are at the age where they are asking questions and I would rather them see it with us and then ask us about certain things before going out in the world and getting answers. As parents, we arm our children for these types of battles.

In the end, it all boils down to your own personal convictions. Will you allow the hoopla of the movie to shake your faith or will you stand firm and grow? After all, is not Pullman a child of God? It's up to him to accept it, just like it was for all of us. Who are we to condemn him for his writings? In our eyes he may be sinning, BUT where does it say that one sin is bigger than the next?

I sinned today, don't flog me.

with all the outrage, surrounding this movie, i went to the theaters eager to be offended, and left utterly disappointed....

If Bill Pullman seriously believes that that will shake any christians foundations of a loving God and of a Saviour who took on the form of man to rescue our souls then he is just as deluded as those who believe in the stories...

I say let the kids watch....and explain to them the lies in the movie.....firstly they will be bored to death in the first 5 minutes of this lame plot, that you may not even need to explain the later......

the devil in all his subtleties still cannot create a worthwhile defense to the BLOOD OF CHRIST....that SAVES ALL MEN

I think we probably all believe in love and God is love. Is that the starting point for Christianity?

Holly says: Hi Molly (love our rhyming names)! I'm reading a book right now, Relational Holiness, which discusses love as the core element of holiness. The book seems to present love as the foundation for Christian beliefs, beginning with the love between the Father and the Son. Interesting stuff.

The problem of using the basic word "love" is: How do we define love? Love is a good starting point, but we've gotta quickly dig into what this means.

I do think the idea of love is usually a good segue for spiritual conversations.

I absolutely love the second excerpt by J Inglis. I completely agree with you regarding the damage involved when innocent young (and old) people are swayed by a desire to have affection and sex outside of marriage. Living together and even sex between fiances just before marriage has led to disaster.

Harry Potter - I was wondering when someone would connect these two media blows to our Christian faith. Also, the Pokemon cards. It is so sad how the devil uses these tools to affect young, vulnerable, naive children into believing these lies. Thank you, J Inglis!!

bipolar2 - I will be praying for you. I am also bipolar and so thankful that God has shown me his love in ways I could never even imagine. Someone in the comments above said we all need to know God and His love for us apart from all the judgement, criticism, ill will, racism and condemnation that goes on between Christians and non-Christians alike.

The things you talk about are way above my head, but that is irrelevant. What is important is to know God as your friend thru Jesus Christ. All He has done for you because He loves you right where you are at.

Quote:

"Harry Potter - I was wondering when someone would connect these two media blows to our Christian faith. Also, the Pokemon cards. It is so sad how the devil uses these tools to affect young, vulnerable, naive children into believing these lies. Thank you, J Inglis!!"

Why is this such an issue? I have seen many Christians have problems with the "Harry Potter" books and such, but I just don't see the issue. Is your opinion based towards younger children?

When can a person or child just read a book or watch a movie just for the joy of it? It's up to the parent to separate "real life" from "fairy tale". There is so much more to worry about with our kids then this.

I want my kids to be able to read a book and get lost in it. To experience the joys of imagination, wonder and awe. Be it from "Harry Potter" or the book of Matthew....kids need to experience the fun of reading and all it's fundamentals that come with it!

I find this amazing that a movie so negative can bring to life such deep thoughts from all people. It really makes atheists have to think of God period. l believe such anger from non believers are cries for a longing to be a believer. Anger from believers will surely push anyone away. Never try to shove God down someone's throat it only pushes them away. Now as for our children well we as parents have to show a child with a simple explanation of "Is this a good and loving feeling you get from this movie?" I doubt it. Then I'd say "It's not someone who loves at all" God is LOVE! Children think very simply.